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led reverse lights (rev 2)

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  • led reverse lights (rev 2)

    time to learn from my mistakes in the first build!(link)

    i just got the new housings in the mail yesterday, so it's time to figure out how to make them work.

    what needs to be improved:

    1. one thing i didn't like about the last ones was that i could see the led's. it was cool at first, but seeing them all the time wore out the coolness pretty quick. if i make the led's visible, they need to look a lot better, and so far i don't have any idea's on how to make it look better then like i just stuffed a flashlight's guts into the housings.


    so to work with that, i ordered some replacement fluted-lensed lights to try to better hide everything:
    \

    though i'm a little concerned that the fluted lenses might hurt the light spread of my idea, so i might ditch these for a set of clear lensed variations if i can come up with a way to make it look good.


    2. the other thing that i realized in the last build was that my run time estimation was way over reality. if they are on for 5 min, somethings wrong anyways and i would be happy to see the car erupt in flames...

    3. and lastly, the light shape/control. having a wall of light at the back of the car is nice, but it didn't do much beyond 10-15ft. do i need more? not really, but if i'm doing it, i might as well play with beam style...



    here's the [current] plan:
    the housings i already mentioned to combat the poor aesthetics of the last project.
    populate the housings with 3-up xp-g stars. a minimum of 2, would like 3, but if 4 fits, why not?

    the outermost star will not have a optic at all-- to give a nice foreground light directly behind and to the sides of the car. i want the inner ones to have optics to shoot a little further, but am undecided on how i should go about it.. do i transition from no optic to all the other stars having a tight angle optic, or setup each star to have a slightly narrower optic and only leave the inner-most one to have the tightest optic?

    i think i am going to abandon using xm-l's for now-- they are nice, but the extra heat from a single small led isn't completely worth it anymore.. i guess a 3-up xp-g star isn't going to be much better, but it's worth a shot. when playing with single-xp-g's on my bench, i was surprised how little heat they put out when you push them @750mA.. i guess much of that is due to how i only worked with xm-l's at first, but it was still kind of surprising.

    another reason is the lumen output..

    @700mA, the xm-l outputs 260 lumens.
    @350mA, the 3-up xp-g outputs 354 lumens.

    in terms of heatsinking, all the led's will share the same heatsink, i hope to fine a large panel of heatsink material that i can cut to fit. hopefully, i can also cut out some of the weight that the previous project had too much of. i haven't really looked into this too much yet, i've got to figure out what led's i want first..


    so that's the plan for now.. i'll let it roll around in my head for a few days and see what falls out..
    The time you enjoy wasting, is not wasted time

  • #2
    Sounds awesome I am still a fan of the XPG and it increases the pool of good drivers to choose from.
    Question: when you say 3 up XPG you mean on one star like the Indus. The triple optic is a single piece of plastic. How do you plan on not having optics on only 1 of the LEDs?

    Comment


    • #3
      it would be 1 full star without optics(so 3 xp-g's will be 'naked'), and then the other stars that will have optics--assuming i work out which optics to use..

      this is what i'm planning on using:

      http://www.ledsupply.com/creexpg-w354.php


      i am undecided weather i should go with the 5000k or 4000k stars.. i know 5000k is the cleanest white in led's, but there are days where i would like the warmer light from the 4000k's..
      The time you enjoy wasting, is not wasted time

      Comment


      • #4
        I def suggest the 4000k. I prefer them and they are on sale. I just bought 250 of them.
        For the optics I hope you experiment with elipticals but I don't know you can get them in a triple. Too bad. So I suppose anything from a 25 to 40 degree FWHM. Probably just clear especially if your planning a fluted lens.

        Do you plan to have a total of 6 XPG per side then? No reason you can't mix a triple star with a single also.

        Was anything salvageable from your last build?

        *edit* oh I see a triple elliptical. Cool!
        http://www.ledsupply.com/10510.php
        Last edited by VegasF6; June 2nd, 2012, 11:09 AM.

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        • #5
          250! what do you plan to do with them all!(are they on sale at another site? they all look to be the same price at led supply..)

          at the moment the plan is a minimum of 6 per housing, but stepping up to 9-12 aren't that far of a stretch if i think i can fit them.

          i see the elliptical optics, and just like the normal optics, i'm still not sure.. i understand the benefits, but is it the best option...



          everything but the housings survived the last build. but being that i didn't add any pics, i'll throw them up in the rev 1 thread..(here)

          everything operates fine, the accident only cracked/blew up one housing. the led's, drivers, heatsinks, etc all are fully operational(with the exposed heatsinks, they have a lot of corrosion from being near water all the time), but the housings leaked a little because of the extensive modification i did to the housing to get everything to work, and the bare led look has started to bother me, and due to the water entry, the chrome-brite has started loosing it's chrome in area's.. so rev 2 is mostly a reason for me to fix my mistakes..

          could rev 1 be fixed? definitely. do i want to fix it? not really.. it was a great learning experience, but i'm bored with what it was and want something that's is less visible of a modification..
          The time you enjoy wasting, is not wasted time

          Comment


          • #6
            i think even with all leds having narrow optics, you will be fine with close range light. that pillow lens really diffuses the light. you will prolly still have the "led spot" look, but it will send light all over in different directions 5 ft away. this is one reason i completely abandoned fluted old style tails when i was doing the elef bulb retro. the fluting blocks too much light and you need massive increases in brightness to even see a difference. for example upgrading filaments to a +100 lumen brighter version is hardly noticable. but in chrome reflector housing and clear lens, its a huge difference. its old tech and the only way to get leds and flutes to work is with filling every space with leds and have them touching the outer housing (like old caddy tails).

            Comment


            • #7
              Have you considered the XT-E? It performs like the XP-G and is about half the price. There are also TIR optics available for it. The weird color separation shouldn't be an issue with the pillowed lens.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by soundman98 View Post
                250! what do you plan to do with them all!(are they on sale at another site?
                My mistake I was thinking of a different led.

                Rebels.
                Mostly I just lose them and ask my wife where the hell are those less I bought?
                Last edited by VegasF6; June 2nd, 2012, 03:50 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by VegasF6 View Post
                  My mistake I was thinking of a different led.
                  Then what did you order 250 of?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by gearbox View Post
                    i think even with all leds having narrow optics, you will be fine with close range light. that pillow lens really diffuses the light. you will prolly still have the "led spot" look, but it will send light all over in different directions 5 ft away. this is one reason i completely abandoned fluted old style tails when i was doing the elef bulb retro. the fluting blocks too much light and you need massive increases in brightness to even see a difference. for example upgrading filaments to a +100 lumen brighter version is hardly noticable. but in chrome reflector housing and clear lens, its a huge difference. its old tech and the only way to get leds and flutes to work is with filling every space with leds and have them touching the outer housing (like old caddy tails).
                    makes sense.. i am still going to try just to see what i can do with it, but i'm not holding out hope for it.. i just need to figure out a way to make everythng look good behind a clear lens..

                    Originally posted by Mike S View Post
                    Have you considered the XT-E? It performs like the XP-G and is about half the price. There are also TIR optics available for it. The weird color separation shouldn't be an issue with the pillowed lens.
                    no i hadn't yet. i originally thought the xt-series was for royal blue remote phosphor products only. it seems the hardest part is locating the led's.. i found them at cutter and illumination supply, but that is about it..

                    Originally posted by VegasF6 View Post
                    My mistake I was thinking of a different led.

                    Rebels.
                    Mostly I just lose them and ask my wife where the hell are those less I bought?
                    that's what you get for taking them out of the plastic carrier
                    The time you enjoy wasting, is not wasted time

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The XT-E was originally only in royal blue true. The XT-E White is only a few months old. With it's silicon carbide base it's very cost efficient. It does have a bit more thermal resistance than the more efficient ceramic based leds, but its a trade off.
                      Still very good. Digikey is your source for them (unmounted of course).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        they do sell optics for them:
                        http://www.led-tech.de/en/Chip-On-Board-Technic/COB-Supply/15%C2%B0-lense-for-3,5W-and-7W-COB-modules-LT-1420_134_139.html
                        http://www.led-tech.de/en/Chip-On-Bo...1_134_139.html


                        but they only look to offer 2900k and 6000k 2.5w variations--(edit, why do they separate the ediline interations from the other COB links?, ediline has a 4000k), and i really don't want to go higher then 5600k, would prefer 4000-5000k for the whiter light. and the lumen output isn't much higher then a single xp-g chip, but takes up a 90mm area. i could fit a lot of xp-g's in that area.. but the bonus is that i could drive it directly off a 12v vreg with no cc driver. right? er, i'm seeing lumen ratings @350mA, so i guess that means i still need a cc driver..
                        The time you enjoy wasting, is not wasted time

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You do see COB arrays driven with voltage regulation. It's not ideal but it's really all you can do. They are made up of an array of closely matched series/parallel leds so keeping a constant current doesn't guarantee that any one string will not see more current than it's neighbors. I can only say I am not a fan however. There are so many other better choices.

                          I have yet to see any projects done with the Luxeon M that would be a really cool experiment.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            wow, constantly tested at 85C! pushing about 840lm @1A, sounds pretty good..

                            can't search future right now with the site maintenance, where else can i get them? and how much?

                            edit-- got through their site. they are $5.75/emitter, just need to find a compatible star...it's looking kinda pricy so far..
                            Last edited by soundman98; June 3rd, 2012, 03:52 PM.
                            The time you enjoy wasting, is not wasted time

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Funny, future is working fine for me.
                              They are around 5 bucks each. The forward voltage drop is ~12V so you would have a parallel array (or even just one) the good news about that is it's perfect for a linear regulator. (or multiple regulators)

                              Take a look at the data sheet of course,
                              http://www.philipslumileds.com/produ...n-m#datasheets
                              You can power these things up over 1100 lumens but of course there would be a lot of heat.
                              Biggest problem is I can only find one source for MCPCB, and it's 35mm. I was trying to find a Cree board that might be compatible, but no luck.

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