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  • Mini H1 kit Cutoff at an angle

    Hello forum,

    I have a 2014 Volvo V40 D4 and i recently upgraded to xenon from the Dutch Retrofitlab, a Mini H1 Kit with Aharon ballast, at first i had a weird cutoff in the left projector (first pic), so i contacted the retrofit guys and got a new projector. Although i thought the right projector whas okay, i found it that it looks like the cutoff shield is bent a little to far towards the lamp. if i aim the headlights down you can clearly see the cutoff is almost at 90%(pic 2) it get worse the further i aim the lamp down the road. also did a paint to explain what i ment if the pics are not as clear it would be.

    so what went wrong? is indeed the cutoff shield bent a little to far to the lamp? switching to highbeam or spacing the lamp doesnt seem to affect it.

    pic1 link https://ibb.co/FDb0SWK
    pic 2 link https://ibb.co/bWMtRdd
    paint link https://ibb.co/rM5nKMh




    Sorry i cant get the links to work in IMG via the forum

    greetings, Joren

  • #2
    Did you purposely aim your headlights into the foreground just for the photographs? Just wondering why you just didn't park close to a wall to take the shot?
    www.automotiveLEDresearch.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Based on your 2 photos and the illustration, it is just because of perspective; that is the shadow cast by the shield projects that way on the ground. Along the lines of what evo77 said, you might want to check the pitch aim (i.e. whether the beam points too far down or just right) and then look at it on the wall. When you do, that perspective effect won't be there on the wall (but will still be there if you are parked on a downhill ramp and your beam casts onto a flat surface ahead).
      Jul 2012 ROTM (3-way quad headlight) ; Sep 2015 ROTM (custom muli-lens 7" fogs)

      3-way quad wiring; foreground limiter; squirrel finder;

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes the aiming on the ground is because i aimed them there, to show the difference between left and right and how the cutoff is at a weird angle. the camera didnt pic it up at greater distance, but i gets worse the further i aim them down the road. i added another photo how is looks on a wall and thats perfect, although the right cutoff is super sharp w en has no ''nice blue blur'' like the left projector. also the right cutoff seems to put out more light, switched the xenons but did not affect it. here is the link how it looks on the wall https://ibb.co/m9xGr3r

        maybe indeed the lamp sits to high relative to the shield, or the shield is bent to far towards the lamp? it looks straight.

        greetings

        Comment


        • #5
          Including the new image (post #4) and the previous 2 and 1 illustration, that is not a problem. It is the perspective projection of that shadow when cast on the road. Remember that all parallel lines on the road along the direction of travel converges into a single "vanishing point". The visual illusion may be such that it feels the cutoff from the passenger side projector is converging in a more acute angle than what the vanishing point should do.
          Jul 2012 ROTM (3-way quad headlight) ; Sep 2015 ROTM (custom muli-lens 7" fogs)

          3-way quad wiring; foreground limiter; squirrel finder;

          Comment


          • #6
            well its okay its not a problem, but it annoys me like crazy, something is off with the right cutoff im sure, the cutoff doesnt ''fade'' in any way like the left side does. if i aim both lights at - lets say - 50 Meters to the ground you can not see the left cutoff on the road cause it fades. but the right cutoff is very clear visible, i tried with disconnecting left and right to see if there whas a difference and its clearly that de right side does not fade but has a very direct and sharp cutoff. added another pic, both projectors aimed to the road at 10 M, shooting the picture from left driver side, right cutoff is at an very different angle than the left side. even from the driver seat https://ibb.co/nbBvsxv

            also, no blue blurry lines around the cutoff like the left, but straight from white/light to dark with no ''fade''
            made another illustration, what happens with the cutoff when aimed further down the road, my camera does not pic this up very easy, the angle gets weirder at longer distance https://ibb.co/dm9rd7h
            Last edited by Joren; January 11th, 2020, 02:50 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Joren View Post
              well its okay its not a problem, but it annoys me like crazy, something is off with the right cutoff im sure, the cutoff doesnt ''fade'' in any way like the left side does. if i aim both lights at - lets say - 50 Meters to the ground you can not see the left cutoff on the road cause it fades. but the right cutoff is very clear visible, i tried with disconnecting left and right to see if there whas a difference and its clearly that de right side does not fade but has a very direct and sharp cutoff. added another pic, both projectors aimed to the road at 10 M, shooting the picture from left driver side, right cutoff is at an very different angle than the left side. even from the driver seat https://ibb.co/nbBvsxv
              If you mean by "fade", is how it goes to the vanishing point far ahead, then I still don't see a problem. The clarity of the cutoff from the right hand projector is also clearer because for some reason, it's hotspot seem to be more visible, whereas the hotspot for the left projector might be hidden in the high beam too much.

              Let's see if I can build on to your illustrations to see what you mean. I drew 3 yellow arrows based on the lane markers in the near field from the driver's view.
              (1) Where they converge is approximately where the vanishing point would be if one were to look ahead & parallel with the surface of the road immediately in front.
              (2)I marked the vanishing point with a blue plus sign.
              (3) Then, along this flat surface, all parallel lines will meet at that vanishing point.
              (4) Then, I added two pink lines that pass through the elbow of the cutoff (that is the bottom of the "step") and into the vanishing point. This means that the two pink lines are parallel to the yellow lines in the actual "flat" road surface.
              (5) As a result, those 3 yellow and 2 pink lines, when seen from directly above, will look like parallel lines as illustrated in the upper right inset of the picture below.
              (6) Note that the angle that the cutoff makes between the elbow and the pink lines may be the same (as seen from above), but still appear like the right one "leans in" too much. But there's nothing wrong here.



              Originally posted by Joren View Post
              also, no blue blurry lines around the cutoff like the left, but straight from white/light to dark with no ''fade'' made another illustration, what happens with the cutoff when aimed further down the road, my camera does not pic this up very easy, the angle gets weirder at longer distance https://ibb.co/dm9rd7h
              As far as the blue/purple colorband; slight differences in the distance of the shield's edge relative to the bowl+bulb+lens' optical alignment will alter that. Pushing the shield slightly (i.e. within fractions of a milimeter) forward or backward will change the thickness of the colorband.
              Jul 2012 ROTM (3-way quad headlight) ; Sep 2015 ROTM (custom muli-lens 7" fogs)

              3-way quad wiring; foreground limiter; squirrel finder;

              Comment


              • #8
                wow thanks for the reply, makes sense. good illustration.
                The left vanishing point seems to be not that abrubt as the right one. as you mentioned, it fades towards the center.
                So what i get when driving, i have a really big ''hook'' visible on the road (elbow more than 90 Degree angle), as the left one does not and is stil 45 Degree at further down the road.
                So when turning or going up a hill, on the road there is this really abrubt cutoff with the ''elbow' being at 90 degree angle. but when aiming on a wall the elbow is back to 45 Degree something. so the further i aim the lights, the bigger get the elbow angle of the rights projector.
                should be fixed aiming the headlights higher, but then i get flashed all the time.
                whatever the spot you look from, inside the car, the right one, as you said, leans in more.

                so i could play with the shield distance towards the lamp to make it have a blue cutoff, maybe it wil soften the elbow cutoff overall too, or maybe again put more of the lamp in the high beam with the help of lampspacers.

                thanks!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  You're welcome.

                  So, to summarize, it can become a perceived visual issue unless you accept that that is what the projectors are designed to do. Namely, put out as much light on the direction of travel (in your case of Right Hand Traffic, or the more common but more ambiguous term Left Hand Drive, on the right side of the road), and block a bit of that on the oncoming traffic to prevent glare. There's obviously more to it than just that (like the intensity distribution; where the hotspot should be, etc.), but the argument above suffices for this context.

                  Clear projectors will exacerbate this visual effect compared to most OE projectors that have slightly cloudy or frosted or dimpled or (circular) fresnel pattern on the lens. Unfortunately, swapping lenses require a matching focal point + lens refraction index + external dimensions. Simply ensuring that the external dimensions (e.g. lens' lip diameter and thickness) will only ensure that the replacement lens can securely attach to the projector, but doesn't mean that the beam pattern will be correct.

                  Moving the shield slightly will change the focus of the cutoff's image cast on roads etc., but it can only be done up to a point. Too much, and the beam pattern may be altered. This is because the beam produced by the projector is a combination of rays coming from all sorts of directions.
                  Jul 2012 ROTM (3-way quad headlight) ; Sep 2015 ROTM (custom muli-lens 7" fogs)

                  3-way quad wiring; foreground limiter; squirrel finder;

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So maybe i should get a 12v powersupply and play a little with the lamp and/or cutoffshield inside the house to see what gives the best results for me, only i need to open the headlight, again.
                    but as you mentioned, not to much because it can **** up the light. i should have bought frosted lenses, the little i knew before i bought those retrofit set.

                    so, what cutoff is beter in this pic, to you? left or right cutoff https://ibb.co/FDb0SWK
                    i got a new projector for the left one, because the cutoff whas way off projected on a wall. headlights aimed at the ground i got this.

                    so maybe some extra info, got 2 illustrations added.
                    the right headlight, with the weird cutoff, also has a bright spot in the beam, showed here, no bright spot on the left side.
                    https://ibb.co/jktGFB5

                    here i got a pic/illustration how i aim the headlights in a normal situation. again with the weird abrupt cutoff shown.
                    https://ibb.co/FmzyY22

                    what would you guys suggest? to aim the tip of the lamp lower compared to the cutoff, or higher? so spacer on the lower part of the lamp seat or top part.
                    or/also shield more towards the lamp/further from lens? or further away from lamp more towards lens. because the right weird (in my opinion) lamp has also less blue glare to it, maybe that makes the cutoff on the road so abrupt too? or at least assist the other problems the lprojector owns.

                    thank you!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The left projector (i.e. newer) seem to have an ECE type shield, whereas the right projector (i.e. prior) seem to have a DOT type shield. Since you made reference to the Netherlands, I assume you are in Europe, in which the ECE type shield is preferred. This is partially to account for road signs on the right shoulder side of the road that do not have retroreflective paint.

                      Aside from the shield type, the location of the hotspot is affected by slight misalignment among the bulb-reflector-shield-lens positioning. Since the bulbs are aftermarket with the smaller H1 base, there is a good chance that the misalignment is due to the bulb sitting at an ever slightly pitched angle (up or down) relative to the intended longitudinal axis.

                      If the two projectors have the same bowl & lens design but both use H1 bulbs, I would pick one that has the ECE type shield shape than the DOT type.

                      After that, I would look up a useful thread here on adjusting hotspot of H1 projectors / a.k.a. shimming the bulb. That would place the hotspot back where they should be. Even in the ones you circled to have a "bright spot", that hotspot sits too low. So, it is possible that one side has its hotspot sitting too low, causing extra foreground glare and insufficient distance low beam (and obviously insufficient high beam), and the other side has its hotspot sitting too high, hiding from the low beam (but potentially ok high beams).

                      This kind of aim is not about aiming using the adjuster for the headlights. It is also possible that in the process of tightening the clips, the bulb base isn't sitting flush with the base on the projector's bulb opening.

                      In the older Mini H1 projectors (like this 6.0), the metal clip mounts on a bracket like this. It may allow the bulb not to sit in the correct orientation ever so slightly.


                      Once you resolved that, you can check to see if the shield's edge can be nudged slightly forward / backward to see if the colorband changes to get a slightly blurred image on a wall.
                      Jul 2012 ROTM (3-way quad headlight) ; Sep 2015 ROTM (custom muli-lens 7" fogs)

                      3-way quad wiring; foreground limiter; squirrel finder;

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        As far as i know i have 2 mini H7 version 7.1, they use the same bracket to hold the bulb as you mentioned. the bulb sits against the back of the projector and should not touch the bracket, so if it is the case that the bulb sits at an angle is because the back of the reflectorhousing would not be flat.
                        the shield of both looks the same to me. the ''replaced'' projectorhousing on the left used a shield with a slightly more curved cutoff shield but as far i know the ones inside the housing now look the same.

                        A friend of me borrowed me a 12V powersupply (max 20A) so that should be fine to test the bulb in different angles inside the house. i will test this tomorrow to see what i can achieve.
                        if this does not work out, ill check the shield, in that case i need to open the headlight housing again.

                        thank you!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Since you now can test indoors, if possible, find a way to bolt the projector so that whatever shadow it casts on a wall can retain its position as much as possible. With this, first check where the hotspot is in high beam mode. It should be reasonably centered. I don't recall how much above and to the right (assuming Right Hand Traffic a.k.a. Left Hand Drive) the hotspot should be, but it definitely shouldn't be to the left or below the horizontal line. If the bulb needs shimming, you will notice that the hotspot is way off. It may be possible to slightly nudge the back of the bulb (taking care of the fact that a high voltage runs through it) and see the hotspot move around on the wall.

                          After that, then you can find the ideal shield position, in terms of height and sideways alignment.

                          After that, you might be able to adjust the forward/backward distance of the shield to slightly alter focus and colorband to make both projectors' output near the cutoff look more similar.

                          While you're at it, you might want to consider adding a foreground limiter; that is a simple sheet metal mounted above the shield like this: https://www.hidplanet.com/forums/for...te?view=thread
                          The picture below is on an EvoX-R 1.0 (not on Mini H1 7.1), but the same principle applies.
                          Jul 2012 ROTM (3-way quad headlight) ; Sep 2015 ROTM (custom muli-lens 7" fogs)

                          3-way quad wiring; foreground limiter; squirrel finder;

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So at first, find the hotspot so it is pretty much in the middle of the lens.
                            If the projector sits 100 procent flat, the bulb at 70 cm from ground, than measure the distance of the hotspot from floor to ground, should be around the same at 20 feet (6 meters) ?

                            what is the purpose of a foreground limiter besides that you get less light at the front of the car? (i.e. lower part of the beam)

                            first i try to aim the lamp on the ground to see if shimming the bulb fixes the wierd cutoff angle to a normal 45 Degree. its so weird that aiming on a wall at 20 feet makes the cutoff perfect, then moving it down to ground and it instantly gets a 90/100 degree angle.

                            update will follow, thanks again!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Joren View Post
                              So at first, find the hotspot so it is pretty much in the middle of the lens.
                              If the projector sits 100 procent flat, the bulb at 70 cm from ground, than measure the distance of the hotspot from floor to ground, should be around the same at 20 feet (6 meters) ?
                              Yes, something like that. Although the execution of this step may be harder than it seems, as many conditions have to be true; ground has to be perfectly level (relative to the table you use to secure the projector to) and perpendicular to the wall; projector mounting isn't tilted up / down (i.e. in terms of pitch angle alignment), etc.


                              Originally posted by Joren View Post
                              what is the purpose of a foreground limiter besides that you get less light at the front of the car? (i.e. lower part of the beam)
                              There's a bit of discussion in my FG limiter build thread, but post #3 in a recent (unrelated) thread has good discussions and photometric data: https://www.hidplanet.com/forums/for...s-out-thoughts

                              Originally posted by Joren View Post
                              first i try to aim the lamp on the ground to see if shimming the bulb fixes the wierd cutoff angle to a normal 45 Degree. its so weird that aiming on a wall at 20 feet makes the cutoff perfect, then moving it down to ground and it instantly gets a 90/100 degree angle.
                              Depending on my interpretation of what you've described above, I don't know how much of it is because the optics actually changed or another image perspective effect. An example of the former could be, say, for some reason the bulb wire gets tugged when in one position, so when you aim it to the other position, the position of the HID arc changes ever so slightly.
                              Jul 2012 ROTM (3-way quad headlight) ; Sep 2015 ROTM (custom muli-lens 7" fogs)

                              3-way quad wiring; foreground limiter; squirrel finder;

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