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  • 50 Watt Lasfit H11 Bulb Test

    I got my hands on some Lasfit "50 watt" LED bulbs. They were $179.



    They weren't kidding about the 50 watts. 12.80 volts * 3.899 amps = 49.9 watts!



    I'm pretty sure these LED bulbs would actually melt snow and ice on the headlamp lens, since when I put them in the projector, I could actually feel the heat when I put my hand in front of the lens!

    The power does ramp down over time with heat building up, but it stays in the 48+ watt range, at least with an ambient temperature of about 77 degrees. In a hot engine compartment, I'm pretty sure the power draw would fall down more.

    Anyway, after seeing the sheer numbers these bulbs were putting up, I was excited about seeing how they would perform. 50 watts is just insane, at least to me, since the LED bulbs I've been testing have been in the 10 to 20 watt range. The Diode Dynamics SL1, for example, draws a little over 20 watts. Even if we assume an extremely low luminous efficacy of 80 lumens/watt, 50 watts would imply 4000 lumens. A H11 bulb only puts out about 1300 lumens. A more average luminous efficacy of 1000 lumens/watt would imply 5000+ lumens! The Luxeon Z ES emitters have efficacies approaching 140 lms/watt, for comparison.


    I first plugged these Lasfits into a Stanley projector that is found in a variety of vehicles:

    Image source: Automotive LED Research



    Unfortunately, glare was through the roof. Glare was so bad that I was shocked, and had to test the Lasfits twice just to make sure I wasn't epically screwing something up. Nope, with the right side of the cutoff resting on the horizontal axis, glare exceeded 3000 candela at the lower federal test point. The limit at this test point is 1000 cd.



    I basically had to point the headlamps directly at the ground to get the glare under control, and at that point, I was recording values of like 200 cd at the hotspot test points. Useless.

    As a matter of fact, these Lasfits were so powerful that they highlighted a limitation of my test setup--I don't have baffling. Baffling, I know. Photometric test labs have "tunnels" which are lined with dark, non-reflective materials. The only place where I have 5 meters of unobstructed space is my living room, and there are glass tables in the living room. When I pointed the Lasfits severely downward, there was enough specular reflection from the tile and glass tables to screw with the glare readings. Even with the Lasfits angled at like a 45 degree downward angle, the glare readings were still >2000 cd. I had to throw some sofa pillows on the glass tables to eliminate the interference. Anyway, I bring this up to make a very important point: not every average Tom, Dick, or Harry can/should do testing at home. Waving around a lux meter calibrated for incandescent light sources a la Headlight Revolution or TRS is not testing. Even if you gave HR a spectroradiometer to wave around, it's not testing. Real testing requires not only the proper equipment but also the humbleness to continuously acknowledge and fix weaknesses and limitations in one's testing setup. Thanks to the Lasfits, I will be covering up the glass tables in the future to reduce specular reflection. I highly doubt that specular reflection significantly skewed my earlier results though, since I didn't have to aim the headlamps so far down that the majority of their light output hit the tables. Specular reflection is also why I don't test in my garage: there's a car parked in there, and I found out very early on that the reflections from the car's windows and paint significantly screwed with my test results and created odd artifacts in the beam pattern. Anyway, if I can eliminate a possible source of error, I'll eliminate it, and I'll even mention it so my posts can serve as an example of what actual "home gamer" testing should look like.

    Executive summary: Lasfit 50 watt LED bulb in a Stanley H11 projector = total, epic fail, will glare the shit out of everyone. It's 100% a myth that a projector can control glare. Projectors cannot necessarily control glare. The fact that the Lasfit LED bulb blew up the Stanley H11 projector with 250% more glare than legally allowed proves this point. None of the other tested LED or halogen bulbs had this much of a glare issue. Glare ultimately is a function of both the bulb and the headlamp.








    That being said, the Lasfits performed slightly better in a visual optical left Hella H9 low beam projector. The Hella has much better glare control. All glare levels recorded in the H9 projector were below 1000 cd, but the Lasfit still can't outperform a $7 dollar H9 bulb that wasn't even running at its full potential--my power supply is slightly maxed out by H9 bulbs (and some 9011 bulbs). So if I had a beefier power supply, the gap between the LEDs and the H9 halogen bulb would be even bigger, and the gap between the $7 dollar H9 bulb and the $179 Lasfit LED bulb at 0.86D, V would shrink significantly.

    Last edited by projector-head; March 24th, 2020, 12:25 PM.

  • #2
    Well, you can just look at the massive size of that diode and tell it's going to be complete trash. Complete waste of money and current/power.

    Comment


    • #3
      Can you measure the width of the chipset, like you did in your other thread? Interested to see how thick this is.

      Great to see some good testing as well, across a few different projectors.

      As far as testing things you may already have on hand, would there be any point to shimming different halogen bulbs further in/further out in each of your projectors and seeing how that alters performance?

      And interesting you note the difference in glare control between the stanley projector and the hella, do you think this indicates the differences between the halogen and HID specific hella lamps may be smaller than the price tag suggests?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by cibiefan View Post
        Can you measure the width of the chipset, like you did in your other thread? Interested to see how thick this is.
        I will once I find a replacement button cell battery for my caliper!

        Great to see some good testing as well, across a few different projectors.

        As far as testing things you may already have on hand, would there be any point to shimming different halogen bulbs further in/further out in each of your projectors and seeing how that alters performance?
        Thank you! Yes, now that you bring that up, I might see if I could figure out how to shim some bulbs to sit further in the projector.

        And interesting you note the difference in glare control between the stanley projector and the hella, do you think this indicates the differences between the halogen and HID specific hella lamps may be smaller than the price tag suggests?
        I want to open the Hella projector (without damaging it) to examine the internals. I suspect that the provisions to provide some uplight in the Stanley projector led, in part, to the excessive glare. The Stanley projector has a slit and a horizontal forward protrusions on its cutoff shield to provide a measured amount of uplight for retroreflective signs.

        Originally posted by gold94corolla View Post
        Well, you can just look at the massive size of that diode and tell it's going to be complete trash. Complete waste of money and current/power.
        Absolutely correct, and I honestly forgot just how small the emitters on some LED bulbs can be. A side-by-side comparison between the Diode Dynamics bulbs and Lasfits reminded me of just how tiny the emitters on the DD SL1 are! Nonetheless, these rectangular LED slabs are rapidly becoming popular. The Lasfit bulb is similar, if not identical, to the GTR Ultra 2 (claimed >40 watts) and a bunch of other super high wattage designs. Now if only they could slim down the chips, we'd have a real winner!
        Last edited by projector-head; March 25th, 2020, 01:05 AM.

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        • #5
          If the Hella Projector you are using is the Hella 90mm sealed projector, you can loosen the 3 screws at the back of the projector in the black bulb holder to mess with spacing and angling of the bulb.

          I just tried it a few days ago with used DDM HID bulbs and Morimoto 2Stroke 2.0 LED. The HID bulb performed better overall, but both showed better output angling the bulb slightly down in the housing. Pulling back, made a more uniform beam, but reduced the hot spot (which ruins distance vision). Aiming down a bit improved overall brightness. The sweet spot may be a little bit of both but more-so the angling. Further testing will tell, but I replaced these projectors with better performing ones on my car. So I was just messing around with these based on an earlier conversation.

          I did it all free-hand since I didn't have washers that would fit the recessed posts of the bulb holder.

          The 2Stroke 2.0 had a brighter center but spotty beam with odd dark spot at the cut-off to the left of the hot spot. Rotating the bulb improved it a bit but sacrificed elsewhere.
          Last edited by VIP1; March 25th, 2020, 11:06 AM.
          www.fadingarrow.com

          2001 Black Firebird Formula 5.7L V8 --- 75th Anniversary Package
          Headlights: Sinolyn 3" D2H Projectors with 35 watt HID

          2013 Blue Mustang GT 5.0 V8 Premium
          Headlights: Stock D3S Bi-Xenon

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by VIP1 View Post
            If the Hella Projector you are using is the Hella 90mm sealed projector, you can loosen the 3 screws at the back of the projector in the black bulb holder to mess with spacing and angling of the bulb
            Thanks, do you know if the entire thing can be taken apart as well? I want to take a look at the cutoff shield, for example.

            Also, how did you power your HIDs? I'm thinking about getting the Xenon Depot HID ballast, which apparently soft-starts at 4.5 amps. My power supply is rated for a max of 5 amps and 30 volts, so I'm thinking that my power supply should be able to power up the XD ballasts.

            Comment


            • #7
              Yes, the Hella 90mm Projector can be disassembled. I made shorter-stepped curved cut-off shields for mine.

              I used ACME Ballasts from TRS and a modified PC Power Supply to power them.

              Here is my thread with pics on modifying the projectors:
              https://ls1tech.com/forums/appearanc...enty-pics.html
              Scroll down to post #4.

              I have better HID Projectors now:
              https://ls1tech.com/forums/appearanc...rojectors.html
              www.fadingarrow.com

              2001 Black Firebird Formula 5.7L V8 --- 75th Anniversary Package
              Headlights: Sinolyn 3" D2H Projectors with 35 watt HID

              2013 Blue Mustang GT 5.0 V8 Premium
              Headlights: Stock D3S Bi-Xenon

              Comment


              • #8
                Looks like my reply is pending approval because I posted links to my threads.
                www.fadingarrow.com

                2001 Black Firebird Formula 5.7L V8 --- 75th Anniversary Package
                Headlights: Sinolyn 3" D2H Projectors with 35 watt HID

                2013 Blue Mustang GT 5.0 V8 Premium
                Headlights: Stock D3S Bi-Xenon

                Comment


                • #9
                  That Stanley H11, above cut off illumination is created by 2 surface.

                  One is diffused reflection created by small table right in front of the cut off shield.
                  And the other one is step down lower surface of reflector bowl, going through flat cut section of the projector lens.

                  12 and 6 o'clock ray group from the bulb correspond to this region. LED bulb ( vast majority) does not shoot much at 12 and 6 directly, since PCB in the middle, LED to be surface lighting, but excessive light source power still scatter too much ray group.

                  Projector is designed to create sufficient enough required illumination level at above cut off selected regeon.

                  If light source gets stronger, it simply increase overall illumination proportionally ( when higher power filament).
                  And if you use LED, then unproportionally affect beam quality.
                  Beam quality isn't defined by how beam looks like, but how each measuring points relative balance and absolute reading range.

                  SL1 still will not duplicate proper beam pattern, it is because filament is 1.4mm diameter cylinder shaped light source.

                  And even if bulb has exact 4.5mm x 1.4mm lighting area emitter, it still show different character because LED illumination is lambertian spread.
                  Assuming LED to be positioned towards 3 and 9 o'clock, highest illuminance will be measured at that angle.

                  Then it throw beam balance out of wack. Projector is designed for filament point-line light source.



                  What's your measuring point selection ?

                  1,000cd limit is 0.5U 1L-L Are you also able to observe at 0.86D 3.5L
                  And also try check at 4D 4R as well. It adds foreground illumination proportion to observation.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    What's the H11 reference distance of Lasfit bulb you have? (Bulb base reference plane to filament equivalent distance)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by VIP1 View Post
                      Looks like my reply is pending approval because I posted links to my threads.
                      (post approved)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by upashi View Post
                        What's your measuring point selection ?

                        1,000cd limit is 0.5U 1L-L Are you also able to observe at 0.86D 3.5L
                        And also try check at 4D 4R as well. It adds foreground illumination proportion to observation.
                        Currently: 0.5U 1.5L, 0.86D, 0.6D 1.3R, and 1.5D 2R.

                        I think I should have enough space to observe 0.86D, 3.5L and 4D, 4R. I just haven't taken measurements at those yet because in my opinion, if the hotspot isn't there, or if glare is excessive, then the bulb is automatically worthless.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by projector-head View Post

                          Currently: 0.5U 1.5L, 0.86D, 0.6D 1.3R, and 1.5D 2R.

                          I think I should have enough space to observe 0.86D, 3.5L and 4D, 4R. I just haven't taken measurements at those yet because in my opinion, if the hotspot isn't there, or if glare is excessive, then the bulb is automatically worthless.
                          That's absolutely true, if it can not satisfy basic hot spot observe, then no point to seeks any farther.

                          It was simply my curiosity how that LED bulb translated.

                          What I can tell is currently, no LED bulb that satisfy beam quality that replaces halogen light source. As long as LED remain as surface lighting device, to adopt such in point lighting based optics is extremely difficult challenge.

                          It can be done, just cost performance will be ridiculously out of balance.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by upashi View Post
                            What I can tell is currently, no LED bulb that satisfy beam quality that replaces halogen light source. As long as LED remain as surface lighting device, to adopt such in point lighting based optics is extremely difficult challenge.

                            It can be done, just cost performance will be ridiculously out of balance.
                            It looks like the Diode Dynamics bulb is pretty close to a H11 filament. I guess that the last ~1.6mm to shrink the thickness down to ~1.4mm will be the most expensive?

                            Also, some posters have stated, multiple times, that LED bulbs appear to work better in ECE headlamps rather than SAE headlamps. Is this reason to believe this is the case? Are ECE headlamps more "accepting" of issues like a thick PCB?



                            [quote]
                            Originally posted by upashi View Post
                            What's the H11 reference distance of Lasfit bulb you have? (Bulb base reference plane to filament equivalent distance)
                            It's actually about 23-24mm. I think 25mm is the spec, correct?
                            Last edited by projector-head; March 26th, 2020, 11:44 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              [QUOTE=projector-head;n1465326]

                              It looks like the Diode Dynamics bulb is pretty close to a H11 filament. I guess that the last ~1.6mm to shrink the thickness down to ~1.4mm will be the most expensive?

                              Also, some posters have stated, multiple times, that LED bulbs appear to work better in ECE headlamps rather than SAE headlamps. Is this reason to believe this is the case? Are ECE headlamps more "accepting" of issues like a thick PCB?




                              It's actually about 23-24mm. I think 25mm is the spec, correct?
                              23-24mm reference height, that will for sure contribute to much more glare. That's typical mistake when bulb is designed to match center of the filament to center of the LED as reference. H11 is defined as "beginning of first full coil" as reference distance.

                              So beside, chip is too large, there is Z axis alignment inaccuracy. Bulb did not get even basic consideration. Just placed LED around filament area.

                              SL1 chip area is smaller, so Z axis position is rather better, yet, thickness of 3.03mm is still too thick.
                              It's like having filament 1.9mm in X direction.
                              And also lanbertian spread of emitting character display different beam quality compare to filament still. It will have peak HWHM 60range.
                              This cause innbalance in beam intensity distrbution.

                              Unfortunately, not much choice when LED must have heatsink right behind the junction point..
                              That's the reason I said it can be challenging unless LED can make drastical configuration change, weather as device itself or with optics to convert such.

                              Bigger the optics is, thickness of PCB affect can be smaller. So if you try in huge reflector headlamp, you will see less affect.
                              Projector is tricky, how they compose beam( some design to overlap beam group to enhance intensity at certain area, then it is hard to notice difference).
                              Stanley H11 for example, beam center intensity is supported by 2-5 o'clock 7-10 o'clock region of reflector.
                              6 is dedicated for area illumination right above the cut off L10-R10 0U-5U like area.
                              Additional support to that are by small table right in front of the cut off shield plate.

                              Projector optics is more sensitive, but it force to cut off some of ray group, it gives more" controlling impression" to those who insist projector handle better.



                              I do not believe any of aftermarket LED bulb manufacturer fully and solely trying to comply with regulation like tier 1 like company like Osram or Philips.
                              It's just their nature, it's not possible to educate entire users wide across. Of course some user study more and will pursue more reguration complying product. and expected product character is what tier 1 guys are not allow to make in some aspect.

                              While ,making continuous effort educate market, got to keep market pleasing product line up to keep markert survive, and then, also pursue truly better quality product must be pursued at the same time.

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