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  • #16
    Originally posted by Starflex978 View Post
    Agree with your conclusion about the focus - totally agree with you. I was just guessing (without any measure at hand) that the led chip was thin enough to ďresembleĒ the size of a halogen coil - anthough emission and angle would always be different.
    The size of the chip is pretty close to a filament coil and that says a lot considering that the majority of the LED bulbs on the market do not, which guarantees a horrible beam.

    But just to clarify, its not the package size that matters (insert joke here ) but rather the DIE size. Since it is the die area that emits the light.

    The ETi chip die area = 4.66mm



    And halogen bulbs have different length filament coils so a one size fits all LED chip model is not always ideal. And it isn't always just about matching the size exactly. IMO, I think each bulb application must use a specific designed chip size that works best with that application.

    H4 = 5.5mm / 4.5mm
    H7 = 4.1mm
    H9 = 4.8mm
    H11 = 4.5mm
    H13 = 4.6mm / 4.6mm
    HB3 = 5.1mm
    HB4 = 5.1mm


    I find it interesting that Philips has chosen to use a chip that has a die area of 3.36mm in length for the H4 application (shorter than halogen) and for the H7 a chip with a die area of 4.51 (slightly longer than halogen). Do they know something we don't?


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    • #17
      Lol,

      my chip is bigger than yours

      Evo, thatís an excellent bit of information thatboubgave me (and is, more in general). Thanks heaps, this contributes to build up my knowledge a bit more

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      • #18
        cn360 has increased the price significantly, from about $48 to $70 for a pair of H4s.

        I thought I would mention that it would be better to get these bulbs from other sellers on AliExpress. They are sold under the name of F2 LED bulbs.

        H4s are available for about $45, and even as low as $22 out of Russia, but they don't ship to my country at least.

        Anyway, cn360 does not appear to be the manufacturer of a lot of the bulbs they sell, if not all, including these. The bulk suppliers on Alibaba sell these bulbs for quite less. If you can get them to send a pair, it should not cost more than $30 for H4s, excluding shipping charges.
        ​​

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        • #19
          Nineo led

          This is the same as the others?
          Because in bulbfacts.com tests seems to be brighter than the f2!

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          • #20
            Originally posted by n1kos3 View Post
            Nineo led

            This is the same as the others?
            Because in bulbfacts.com tests seems to be brighter than the f2!
            Yes that bulb is the same as the V4, just anodized black. You will find many other brands that carry the same bulb on Ali, Ebay, Amazon. Different or same colors, different names. All the same.

            Brighter does NOT mean its better! Please don't get hung up on this. What matters most is optical performance. This is what is going to provide a better, safer beam.

            Yes, it is a fact that this LED is very bright. However its no different than putting in a bright HID system. Both should NEVER be put into a reflector headlamp. The lamp cannot control all that light so then a good portion of it becomes scattered. It will always glare far too much.

            If you have a projector lamp then this is better because it can control the glare with the shield. I have tested it in multiple halogen projectors and it fairs well. But as I've stated before, there are others that are better optically.

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            • #21
              I've been looking into these Supernova V4's to put into my 2017 Toyota Tacoma w/factory Halogen projectors. The price of them through the main US retailer is insane. This forum discussion is the only place I've found that has been able to confirm that the Chinese/Ali/eBay versions are the same exact bulb as the Supernova V4. With that said, I ordered a cheaper pair. Once I get them installed, I'll do a before and after DRIVING video review so people get a chance to see how they look. There's a dark road near my house that should provide a good comparison. Stay tuned!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by poopshute View Post
                I've been looking into these Supernova V4's to put into my 2017 Toyota Tacoma w/factory Halogen projectors. The price of them through the main US retailer is insane. This forum discussion is the only place I've found that has been able to confirm that the Chinese/Ali/eBay versions are the same exact bulb as the Supernova V4. With that said, I ordered a cheaper pair. Once I get them installed, I'll do a before and after DRIVING video review so people get a chance to see how they look. There's a dark road near my house that should provide a good comparison. Stay tuned!
                Taking video and photos is ok to get an idea however its really pointless because its subjective. Too many people fall victim to over exposed photos on the net of certain lighting upgrades assuming that they are *improvements*. There are too many variables with cameras and exposures that they just cannot reliably duplicate what is seen with the naked eye.

                Only actual measured light can offer value with objective data to back it up.

                The halogen projectors in the Tacoma are used in MANY other vehicles including the Camry (as shown below). And as I've been saying over and over again with this Supernova V4 bulb, it is *bright* but it just doesn't cut it optically. Check out my halogen shootout HERE.

                -The hot spot is too low and blows out the foreground (way beyond the legal limit).
                -The far distance seeing test points are weak. Some of the weakest.
                -Width has the largest gains of most bulbs but sacrificing distance vision to see better in the peripheral is not a good tradeoff.

                Do not let the bright blob of hot spot fool you. Going back to my previous point about photos of the beam mostly being pointless. I use them in my test comparisons just as a visual basis to compare beam patterns but not performance.

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                • #23
                  And here is a peak gains comparison chart. You can see how far lower the V4 peak is versus the the halogen. (the V4 peak stretches 1 full degree where as the halogen is just a point)

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by evo77 View Post

                    Taking video and photos is ok to get an idea however its really pointless because its subjective. Too many people fall victim to over exposed photos on the net of certain lighting upgrades assuming that they are *improvements*. There are too many variables with cameras and exposures that they just cannot reliably duplicate what is seen with the naked eye.

                    Only actual measured light can offer value with objective data to back it up.

                    The halogen projectors in the Tacoma are used in MANY other vehicles including the Camry (as shown below). And as I've been saying over and over again with this Supernova V4 bulb, it is *bright* but it just doesn't cut it optically. Check out my halogen shootout HERE.

                    -The hot spot is too low and blows out the foreground (way beyond the legal limit).
                    -The far distance seeing test points are weak. Some of the weakest.
                    -Width has the largest gains of most bulbs but sacrificing distance vision to see better in the peripheral is not a good tradeoff.

                    Do not let the bright blob of hot spot fool you. Going back to my previous point about photos of the beam mostly being pointless. I use them in my test comparisons just as a visual basis to compare beam patterns but not performance.

                    At $35 shipped, trying the V4 type bulb is something I just have to do. If the lighting sucks... at least it was only $35. With that being said, I'm trying to find a bulb that matches closer to my TRD Pro's fog which I believe is in the 6000k color. Do you have any other LED bulbs you would recommend for the Toyota halo projectors or are you on the side of Halogens or nothing (HID's excluded)?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by poopshute View Post

                      At $35 shipped, trying the V4 type bulb is something I just have to do. If the lighting sucks... at least it was only $35. With that being said, I'm trying to find a bulb that matches closer to my TRD Pro's fog which I believe is in the 6000k color. Do you have any other LED bulbs you would recommend for the Toyota halo projectors or are you on the side of Halogens or nothing (HID's excluded)?
                      evo77 has tested many different LED bulbs in different housings, and his top two recommendations are usually the Diode Dynamics SL1 and the CrystaLux G11. I took his advice and bought the CrystaLux G11's, and I can vouch for their performance in a halogen projector housing. They won't match the brightness of an HID kit (not even close), but they don't produce as much glare or foreground illumination, either. In terms of output, they fall somewhere between the stock, Long Life H11 bulbs and performance H11 halogen bulbs like the Osram Night Breaker Laser and GE Mega Light +130 (check out evo's link above to see how those performance halogen bulbs compare to a standard H11 halogen). But if you're looking for a nice compromise between color temperature and output, the G11 should fit the bill. The G11 is rated 6000K, and in my experience, that seems about right. My Accord's OEM LED fog lights are probably around 5500K, and the G11's are almost a perfect match if not just a tad 'cooler'.

                      The Diode Dynamics SL1 is another good bulb that's close to the G11 in performance, but it may not be what you're looking for if you're trying to closely match 6000K fog lights. The SL1 is rated by DD at 5700K, but I've seen many people who have tested them say that they're warmer than that and are closer to 5000K. They're great bulbs, and if you're willing to live with a slightly warmer color temperature, you'll get the benefit of DD's excellent customer service and 3-year warranty.

                      Unfortunately, you're going to pay a lot more than just $35 for either the G11 or the SL1. The G11 comes with only a 1-year warranty and costs $125. You can get them on Amazon from the seller 4x4TruckLEDs, or from 4x4TruckLEDs' own website. I would provide links, but then my post would get flagged as spam. Just google CrystaLux G11, or search Amazon for them.

                      The Diode Dynamics SL1 is more expensive still, at $150, and is available on several sites. For the extra cost, you do get that better warranty and Diode's great customer service. I haven't had to deal with 4x4's customer service, so I can't comment on them, but I have talked to DD on a few occasions and they were great to deal with each time.

                      You really can't go wrong with either choice.

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                      • #26
                        Yep, everything th23 said is on the money!

                        I do like the G11Fs very much as they are pretty consistent in performance across the many headlamps (reflector and projector) I've tested. It does quite good in the Toyota/Koito halogen projector with similar far distance seeing improvements as the performance halogen bulbs but way better width. The only reason its slightly better than the SL1 is because the G11F is nearly a 30W bulb where as the SL1 is about 20W. Optically both are nearly the same (only when the evo77 mod has been performed on the SL1). But the SL1 is a far better engineered bulb. In fact the photometric performance for both is so close that even though the SL1 is short 10W its still able to hold its own to the G11F. This is because of the much better thermal design of the SL1. It keeps the Luxeon Z ES chips at optimum operating temps which maximizes lumen output and keeps it rock solid stable without any major drop in output. Because as you know, the hotter a LED chip gets the less light it puts out, even when its being driven at a high current. The G11F isn't really bad in this area (because the HGL3 chips have high thermal resistance) but none the less there is some output drop.

                        Speaking of chips, another reason I like the G11F better is because of the specific LED chips they use. Its a 1-piece multi-die ceramic chip exclusive for automotive forward lighting. This means it has higher tolerances to heat and is more durable to the demands of automotive lighting. The 3 dies are placed *really* close to each other (0.1mm gap in between) which translates into a smoother beam. The days of old of stacking 3 separate chips right up against each other was really the only solution a few years ago because no one was developing affordable single chip solutions. Despite putting them super close to each other there is always streaks that occur in the beam because of those micro gaps (more prevalent in reflector lamps than in projector lamps). The ceramic single chips do a much better job aesthetically. The headlight bulb aftermarket is trending towards these style chips and you will see many more converting to them.

                        For the Koito H11 halogen projector I do have 1 particular LED bulb that has provided the best photometric performance than all others but its only because I have modified the base to make it better optically. It still isn't exactly perfect (thick center section due to the copper thermal pipe) but it pumps out a whopping 35W. The hot spot is a smidge lower than I'd like (versus the halogen) but its still in a decent location. Not worth the extra effort to modify it though. Especially when the G11F is good right out of the box.



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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by evo77 View Post
                          Yep, everything th23 said is on the money!

                          I do like the G11Fs very much as they are pretty consistent in performance across the many headlamps (reflector and projector) I've tested. It does quite good in the Toyota/Koito halogen projector with similar far distance seeing improvements as the performance halogen bulbs but way better width. The only reason its slightly better than the SL1 is because the G11F is nearly a 30W bulb where as the SL1 is about 20W. Optically both are nearly the same (only when the evo77 mod has been performed on the SL1). But the SL1 is a far better engineered bulb. In fact the photometric performance for both is so close that even though the SL1 is short 10W its still able to hold its own to the G11F. This is because of the much better thermal design of the SL1. It keeps the Luxeon Z ES chips at optimum operating temps which maximizes lumen output and keeps it rock solid stable without any major drop in output. Because as you know, the hotter a LED chip gets the less light it puts out, even when its being driven at a high current. The G11F isn't really bad in this area (because the HGL3 chips have high thermal resistance) but none the less there is some output drop.

                          Speaking of chips, another reason I like the G11F better is because of the specific LED chips they use. Its a 1-piece multi-die ceramic chip exclusive for automotive forward lighting. This means it has higher tolerances to heat and is more durable to the demands of automotive lighting. The 3 dies are placed *really* close to each other (0.1mm gap in between) which translates into a smoother beam. The days of old of stacking 3 separate chips right up against each other was really the only solution a few years ago because no one was developing affordable single chip solutions. Despite putting them super close to each other there is always streaks that occur in the beam because of those micro gaps (more prevalent in reflector lamps than in projector lamps). The ceramic single chips do a much better job aesthetically. The headlight bulb aftermarket is trending towards these style chips and you will see many more converting to them.

                          For the Koito H11 halogen projector I do have 1 particular LED bulb that has provided the best photometric performance than all others but its only because I have modified the base to make it better optically. It still isn't exactly perfect (thick center section due to the copper thermal pipe) but it pumps out a whopping 35W. The hot spot is a smidge lower than I'd like (versus the halogen) but its still in a decent location. Not worth the extra effort to modify it though. Especially when the G11F is good right out of the box.


                          Wow, that thing looks like a monster haha. The heatsink/fan looks as if it's made out of cast iron, and weighs a ton.

                          Considering how impressive the G11F is, chip selection and all, I can't wait to see what BT does with their next-gen bulbs. I'm also eagerly waiting for someone to test the revised SL1, as I'd love to see how it compares to the original and the "evo77 mod". So far, there isn't a single picture of the revised SL1 out there, not even on Diode's own site. I wish I could at least see what they look like...

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                          • #28
                            Thanks for all the great info. Itís interesting to see the different opinions of reputable and knowledgeable people. I reached out to Headlight Revolution and they stated that they have tested the G11ís. They said the performance and beam pattern were great but not as bright as the Supernova V4 (also ranked high on beam pattern. This was for a 3rd gen Tacoma halo projector. Pictures below are what they sent me comparing the two with data. Since Iíve already ordered the V4ís, Iím going to give them a chance. At least the G11ís can be added to the list of good performing LED bulbs I can potentially use.


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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by poopshute View Post
                              Thanks for all the great info. Itís interesting to see the different opinions of reputable and knowledgeable people. I reached out to Headlight Revolution and they stated that they have tested the G11ís. They said the performance and beam pattern were great but not as bright as the Supernova V4 (also ranked high on beam pattern. This was for a 3rd gen Tacoma halo projector. Pictures below are what they sent me comparing the two with data. Since Iíve already ordered the V4ís, Iím going to give them a chance. At least the G11ís can be added to the list of good performing LED bulbs I can potentially use.
                              Those beam photos are NOT of the Tacoma projector by the way.

                              I like Chris Nelson from HR. I think he means well and does make an effort at trying to find the best lighting. But their current methods of testing bulbs is INCORRECT and misleading to every unknowing person that watches their videos. You cannot take a random peak measurement within a beam pattern and rank them by "highest lux" order. Just because a LED bulb is the brightest doesn't mean its BETTER. The optical focus matters most of all. And the Supernova V4 just doesn't cut it when compared to others that are LESS bright.

                              My comparison image below of the Tacoma projector has the H11 vs Supernova V4 vs G11F. Look closely at where my test measurements are marked. YES the Supernova is brighter and has a bigger blob but as you can see, the G11F has better numbers for distance because it has better optical focus. And sure the Supernova has more luminous width but this is always the case when a LED does not have the correct optical focus (less light far down road, more light on the sides, blown foreground).

                              And as I stated previously, the Supernova has WAY too much foreground light. Look at the percentages. This fools the driver into thinking "wow, these are super bright and I can see better". But its the complete opposite. The peak light should be up high closest to the cutoff. Not down low. Look at where the PEAKS are situated for both bulbs. That's a substantial difference when looking far down road.

                              The numbers don't lie. The G11F is the better overall performer even if the V4 does better at certain test points.



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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by evo77 View Post

                                Those beam photos are NOT of the Tacoma projector by the way.

                                I like Chris Nelson from HR. I think he means well and does make an effort at trying to find the best lighting. But their current methods of testing bulbs is INCORRECT and misleading to every unknowing person that watches their videos. You cannot take a random peak measurement within a beam pattern and rank them by "highest lux" order. Just because a LED bulb is the brightest doesn't mean its BETTER. The optical focus matters most of all. And the Supernova V4 just doesn't cut it when compared to others that are LESS bright.

                                My comparison image below of the Tacoma projector has the H11 vs Supernova V4 vs G11F. Look closely at where my test measurements are marked. YES the Supernova is brighter and has a bigger blob but as you can see, the G11F has better numbers for distance because it has better optical focus. And sure the Supernova has more luminous width but this is always the case when a LED does not have the correct optical focus (less light far down road, more light on the sides, blown foreground).

                                And as I stated previously, the Supernova has WAY too much foreground light. Look at the percentages. This fools the driver into thinking "wow, these are super bright and I can see better". But its the complete opposite. The peak light should be up high closest to the cutoff. Not down low. Look at where the PEAKS are situated for both bulbs. That's a substantial difference when looking far down road.

                                The numbers don't lie. The G11F is the better overall performer even if the V4 does better at certain test points.


                                Thanks for the added information. Question I have for you... how large of a difference in performance would you say the Supernova V4 and the G11 are compared to each other? These are all great data points but to the untrained eye/daily driver... how noticeable will this be? I would have to assume that after a certain distance, (generally speaking) the normal human eye can't decipher between the two as far as distance goes. I could understand if both bulbs were vastly different. It seems both bulbs are both reasonably close to each other? Or, is the 10% difference between the two that noticeable in terms of distance?

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