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Review: DD SL1 vs VLEDS Micro Evolution

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  • #46
    Originally posted by evo77 View Post

    Any time I test a lamp I always compare before and after against 6 specific points which represent far distance seeing. I add up the total and average it out. The first row is at 0.5 degrees down and the second row is at 1.0 degree down. Measuring closer to horizontal doesn't seem to be beneficial because this region starts infringing on the cutoff line gradient. Half degree down is usually where light intensity begins its ascent as you move downwards.

    In your Stanley projector the G11F had significant gains in far distance despite any perceived gaps seen close to the cutoff line. I know you were originally having some issues with seating these bulbs so I wonder if there is some strange anomaly going on in your case.

    But I can vouch that the G11F had a 75% increase in this region over the stock halogen (powered at 65W)!

    How did I miss this post? Haha jeez.

    75% gain over halogen is definitely an impressive increase, but now I'm a bit confused. The charts you shared with me a few months back showed the G11F only out-performing the H11 halogen by about 25% in the distance measurement (0.5D Region, Average), while the H9 halogen was 20% brighter in that area than the G11F. The H9's peak intensity at the halogen point (1D, 1.5R) was 360 lux greater than the G11F at that same point, and 290 lux greater than the G11F at its own peak point (1.5D, 2.3R).

    I'm not arguing with your data, I'm just confused as to how the G11F can show a 75% increase in one test, but only 25% in another.

    As always, thank you for the data (and the visuals)! And sorry for the late reply.

    Originally posted by Paul J. McCain View Post
    Yes, all SL1 shipping are the v2 now. The main changes are cosmetic and for durability, but they also added rotational adjustment to the collars, and the chips are indeed slightly adjusted in focus, along the lines of what Evo77 discovered. Thanks!
    Awesome news! I can't wait to see them in action. I'm a bit broke at the moment unfortunately, but I'd love to eventually get my hands on a set of 9005's for my high beams now that their rotation can be adjusted. I bought another set of the G11's for my high beams a month or so ago, but I don't think they're going to fit due to interference with a frame rail right next to the high beam socket in my Accord. If the SL1 is still as compact as before, I believe that it would be perfect for that application.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Paul J. McCain View Post
      Yes, all SL1 shipping are the v2 now. The main changes are cosmetic and for durability, but they also added rotational adjustment to the collars, and the chips are indeed slightly adjusted in focus, along the lines of what Evo77 discovered. Thanks!
      Can I send my one original and the one slightly improved (v1.5?) 9005s for a v2 upgrade?
      Originally posted by HK45
      I don't even look to see what Eddie writes anymore. I'm too busy staring at his avatar.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by th23 View Post
        How did I miss this post? Haha jeez.

        75% gain over halogen is definitely an impressive increase, but now I'm a bit confused. The charts you shared with me a few months back showed the G11F only out-performing the H11 halogen by about 25% in the distance measurement (0.5D Region, Average), while the H9 halogen was 20% brighter in that area than the G11F. The H9's peak intensity at the halogen point (1D, 1.5R) was 360 lux greater than the G11F at that same point, and 290 lux greater than the G11F at its own peak point (1.5D, 2.3R).

        I'm not arguing with your data, I'm just confused as to how the G11F can show a 75% increase in one test, but only 25% in another.

        As always, thank you for the data (and the visuals)! And sorry for the late reply.
        Sorry about that.

        In that particular photo I had the horizontal aim set incorrectly. I never realized I was aimed too far to the left of vertical which put more light falling over that frustum pyramid shaped region. My bad on that one.

        Another possible factor for the variance is vertical aim. I know initially, in previous testing, I was playing with different heights, trying to maximize distance seeing while keeping glare under the legal limit. An aim inclination as small as .25 degrees can make a huge impact of light output in that region.

        My apologies. During the past 12 months I have made several adjustments to my testing practices, with my main goal being to provide accurate data and have it more in line to the methods defined in the federal lighting standard.

        In the end, the G11F is still a top performer (one of the best) in the Stanley H11 projector.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by evo77 View Post

          Sorry about that.

          In that particular photo I had the horizontal aim set incorrectly. I never realized I was aimed too far to the left of vertical which put more light falling over that frustum pyramid shaped region. My bad on that one.

          Another possible factor for the variance is vertical aim. I know initially, in previous testing, I was playing with different heights, trying to maximize distance seeing while keeping glare under the legal limit. An aim inclination as small as .25 degrees can make a huge impact of light output in that region.

          My apologies. During the past 12 months I have made several adjustments to my testing practices, with my main goal being to provide accurate data and have it more in line to the methods defined in the federal lighting standard.

          In the end, the G11F is still a top performer (one of the best) in the Stanley H11 projector.
          No worries!

          I can understand how setting up the aim would be difficult since putting LED bulbs in a halogen projector can warp the beam pattern quite a bit. The most notable differences between the two (to me) are the cutoff step height and the hot spot size/location. The cutoff step is much more pronounced with the halogen, that's for sure. It all but disappears with LED bulbs (except the Koito...), and I can't tell if that's because the top step is lower, or because the lower step is higher. I'm guessing it's the top step, since the Koito is the only LED I've tested that fires light 360 degrees and its cutoff step is very similar to the halogen's.

          Because of those differences in the shape of the beam pattern, it's difficult to say what the proper aim should be for testing. Honestly, I think the most useful measurements would be taken with the lamp aimed exactly the same for both halogen and LED. That way, we can see how much the LED changes the beam's shape and output characteristics before touching headlight aim. I guarantee that most people who put LED or HID bulbs in their halogen housings never even touch the vertical aim of their headlights. I personally don't, unless I somehow manage to knock the alignment out of whack during installation, like I did when I first installed the G11's.

          Speaking of the G11, my only real issue with it is the ridiculous amount of glare above the cutoff step. The glare is acceptable to the left of the cutoff step where oncoming traffic typically sits, and may actually be less offensive than halogen at certain angles. However, the glare directly above the cutoff step that likely blasts the rearview mirrors of the cars ahead is something to behold. Now, I know the halogen also produces glare in that region (I measured it, and I've seen it in action when other Accords are behind me on the road), but the intensity is easily doubled with the G11. The reason that concerns me is that, while running the G11's, I noticed that cars in front of me would often move over and slow down to let me pass after just a moment or so (and no, I don't tailgate). Now, some people might think that's a good thing, but I find it a little worrying. I'd hate to piss off the wrong person, like a police officer.

          That said, I've noticed a lot of new cars with LED headlights from the factory do the same thing. I had a 2018 Accord behind me the other night, and the two innermost reflectors on each headlamp were basically pointing directly at my rearview mirror. They almost looked like high beams at times, but it was a model with halogen high beams so I know that wasn't the case. Same deal with the new Camry and Altima. Those produce a lot of glare above the cutoff from directly in front of the car, too. So I guess the G11's are no more offensive than your typical OEM LED headlights in terms of glare. A lot of these modern LED headlights seem to produce a very large, and very intense light box above the cutoff compared to your typical halogen projector like my Stanleys.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by th23 View Post

            No worries!

            I can understand how setting up the aim would be difficult since putting LED bulbs in a halogen projector can warp the beam pattern quite a bit. The most notable differences between the two (to me) are the cutoff step height and the hot spot size/location. The cutoff step is much more pronounced with the halogen, that's for sure. It all but disappears with LED bulbs (except the Koito...), and I can't tell if that's because the top step is lower, or because the lower step is higher. I'm guessing it's the top step, since the Koito is the only LED I've tested that fires light 360 degrees and its cutoff step is very similar to the halogen's.

            Because of those differences in the shape of the beam pattern, it's difficult to say what the proper aim should be for testing. Honestly, I think the most useful measurements would be taken with the lamp aimed exactly the same for both halogen and LED. That way, we can see how much the LED changes the beam's shape and output characteristics before touching headlight aim. I guarantee that most people who put LED or HID bulbs in their halogen housings never even touch the vertical aim of their headlights. I personally don't, unless I somehow manage to knock the alignment out of whack during installation, like I did when I first installed the G11's.
            All headlamps should be aimed (vertically) in accordance to the visual optical aim it was designed for. Most halogen systems (reflector and projector) and also LED systems are VOR which calls for the upper part of the high intensity zone on the *right* side of the beam to be aimed. Horizontal aim is not adjustable in modern headlamps and many US/SAE headlamps have no visual indicator (like a step) for one to set the horizontal aim if they wanted to. This is why there is a reference point on the lens (that little dot) that represents the optical axis (center line) to where the lamp is to be aimed horizontally. Until recently I had tested projectors that were outside of the headlamp so its a little harder to determine that optical reference point without having the actual headlamp lens. One might say, well just use the cutoff step as your guide but you'll be surprised to know that VOR projector lamps (halogen and LED) don't all align the step in the same fashion as a xenon projector. Some have the upper part of the step at center line. Some have the lower part. Some don't align the step on any part. Some don't have a step at all (like Korean made projectors). Xenon projectors are aimed as VOL which uses the *left* side of the beam for vertical aim and must rest 0.4 degrees down. And every xenon projector incorporates the lower part of the step to rest on the vertical line. Not always the same for halogen or LED projectors.

            Here is a view of my measuring laser at the exact height and angle to the H-V point on my screen. The optical axis of every headlamp I test is oriented in this manner to achieve accurate test results.




            And a view of another laser in the opposite direction facing the headlamp as I align it so that it is centered directly on the lens optical reference point.




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