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Thread: HIDs flickers only when moving

  1. #11
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    I guess now I just have to figure out how to get access to my battery...

    Also, Michelin Man. You mentioned to me before that the Denso Slim Ballasts are one of the most power hungry ballasts. Would this mean that you would not recommend running these Densos without a relay harness even if there was no flickering? What is the potential of actually causing damage, anyway? To my understanding of basic physics, how can running HIDs with halogen harness be bad? Watts = Volts x Amps x Length. Since HIDs (35s) is less than the 55W from Halogens, wouldn't that mean voltage and amps is also lower? Why would there be a problem? Or is the main problem related to just the start-up amp requirement, and not actually the long-term usage of the bulb. Also, how can over-heating of the harnesses be a problem? Again, with lower voltage and lower current, the equation P=I V proves that power (in form of heat) will be lower for HIDs compared to Halogens, right?

    I am just a little confused - If anyone can clarify that I would greatly appreciate.
    Last edited by CedarZ4; April 14th, 2012 at 08:45 PM.

  2. #12
    Senior Member HID MASTER Michelin Man's Avatar
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    HIDs even though they are 35w that is rated on the output side (for OEM ballasts anyways), and they take in roughly 43watts. Even then it is less than 55w, but yeah the startup demands are really high.

    That is one of the things though like, even though they may draw 14 amps its only for a very short amount of time. I don't personally think any real harm is going to happen (but newer cars are different in the way they wired things) but I personally wouldn't risk it. You might wear out the contacts of the factory relay/switch even more but yeah.

    But also when the wire is not capable of carrying the current the voltage will sag, and this is not a good thing. It can kill the ballasts pretty fast.

    Lets say yo start off with 12v at the connector with no load, you put a Denso slim on it, when it starts up and takes its 14 amps since the wires can't handle the draw the voltage will drop down quite a bit, maybe 10 volts or even less. Or say to the point where they can't operate at that voltage, so they cut out and then when the voltage goes back up they try to start again and then yeah voltage sag and etc.

    Either way though, to protect the vehicle and the ballasts I would run a wiring harness. Even though your running DDM ballasts and what not, I think the vehicle would like one.

  3. #13
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    Thank you for the explanation. So to my understanding, the real damage (if any in practice) would be due to firing up the ballasts in the first place.

    However, a lack of current may decrease ballast life - but won't damage car electrical equipments?

    I am planning on getting rid of the DDM ballasts and going for some Densos Speciality. Only reason is that the DDM bulbs suck big time. Mismatched colors... I figured if I'm getting new bulbs (how are the Morimoto H7 35Ws?), might as well pick up nice ballasts. I initially got the DDM to see if any errors would pop up - As it turns out, it does... sometimes. Maybe running a relay harness will eliminate this problem. However, again, the biggest problem is actually finding the battery, and then a way to run the harness there. Stupid Porsche. Great vehicles - Hate how they design everything so you don't have access to anything

  4. #14
    Senior Member HID MASTER Michelin Man's Avatar
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    The Morimoto H7 is actually made by CNLight. They are some of the better ones out there, I get the same ones but for a lot less money.

    Since it is a H7, what you could do is get the D2S to H7 adapter, I'm not sure how these go since I've never used them. But they allow you to run OEM bulbs and run OEM ballasts without needing you to cut the ends off. You will need to file two notches into the base of the bulb but yeah for OEM quality I wouldn't mind too much.

    If you run a relay harness, with a canbus canceler you 'should' get no errors.

    If you do decide to run a harness just make sure you fuse it from where the battery is. If I was doing it I probably would use some 12 gauge wiring to bring that power to the front of the vehicle, and also run some protective sleeving over it. Then you can wire that into the new wiring harness, just snip the eyelet off and crimp them together.

  5. #15
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    I've reda that Morimoto 4.3Ks have a yellowish tint (and look like halogens, but with more output) while their 5Ks (while technically less lumens and therefore output) has pure white light. Is this correct since I've never used Morimoto before. I understand that factor xenons uses 4.3k, but in terms of OEM "look," the 5K would reproduce that better than the 4.3K, correct?

    Edit: Is it true that the Morimoto H7s are actually H7 design (same as the halogen bulbs) and not just a standard (like D2S) HID bulb that is rebased to fit H7?

    In regards to the adaptor. Are you saying I should get a D2S ballast with a D2S bulb, then get a D2S to H7 adaptor for my car? Couldn't I just get the Denso Speciality (with AMP) then get a Morimoto H7?
    Last edited by CedarZ4; April 14th, 2012 at 10:03 PM.

  6. #16
    Senior Member HID MASTER Michelin Man's Avatar
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    The Morimoto bulbs are usually on the dot or near their rated colour temperature.

    4300k is white with a yellowish tint (halogen is more like 3500 or so, just a guess). 5000K is pure white. You do lose a bit of lumens going to 5000k usually. The exception is the Osram CBI bulbs they are rated for 5000k but still put out the same lumens as the 85122+.

    Most OEM vehicles actually use the 85122 which starts off as 4300k but as they age get towards 5000k, although more like 4800k or so but they're fairly white.

    To be honest I don't think paying an extra $35 on top of $165 to get AMP connectors is worth it. Especially if your going to be running aftermarket bulbs.

    With OEM bulbs you are going to get the most amount of light possible, along with lower temperatures, and a longer life span well worth the extra cost in my opinion. Plus you can just run OEM ballasts as they were meant to be run.

    It's really up to you if you feel like spending the money and judging whether it is worth it.

  7. #17
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    Do the Morimotos colorshift? They don't indicate that they don't, so they probably do right? Wouldn't that mean the 4.3K with the yellowish will eventually colorshift to close to 4.8Ks just like the OEM Philip 85122s? That would also mean the pure white from 5k will colorshift to a bluer tint after about a hundred hours.

    Are you saying that if I am going to get aftermarket bulbs, just go with aftermarket ballasts (Like Morimoto 3Fives?)

    From my reading, I thought the Morimotos were pretty close to OEMs (I saw a Morimoto vs. Philips comparison. Albeit, from TRS themselves so maybe biased). So while they are technically "aftermarket," I was under the impression that they are non distinguishable from OEMs.

    In regards to using D2S ballast + bulb with an adaptor (I have to check to see if this works in my car - It doesn't use a retainer clip. It has a "base" that goes around the base of the bulb and you turn it), how would the beam pattern be? Wouldn't I need to use xenon projectors if I go this route. The Morimotos H7s are meant to be put into halogen projectors.

  8. #18
    Senior Member HID MASTER Michelin Man's Avatar
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    Pretty much all HID bulbs colourshift the only ones that don't is the 85122+ (as far as I know).

    Yeah the Morimoto bulbs do colourshift over time, but its a fair while before they do so yeah. 4300k will get to 5000k eventually and maybe even higher.

    Morimoto is far from OEM, OEM parts are produced to meet strict specifications and have R&D put into them. If you go from a Mori bulb to an OEM bulb you will definitely see the difference.

    Have you got a photo of this bulb retainer?

    That will probabaly dictate what you can use.

    What I am saying is if you can utilize D2S to H7 adapters, then by all means go for it. Nothing beats an OEM setup, even if you have halogen projectors at least they'll turn on when you want them to.

    If you can only run H7 HID bulbs then yeah, guess you have no choice. Morimoto or OEM ballasts, really up to you. I mean there's a member on this forum trying to sell his potted Densos with AMP connectors on them for a while now for a decent price.

    The D2S to H7 adapter was also made to put into Halogen housings. For some cases they will fit and some they don't (the base is quite thick especially with the adapter).

  9. #19
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    Do you mind enlightening me as to what the difference would be in regards to Mori bulbs vs. OEM? I understand poorly designed aftermarkets will have less salt, and most likely overheat. On top of that, the actual temperature/color might vary because they do not really have any specifications. However, you mentioned before that Mori Bulbs are pretty dead-on their rated temperature. So then what would be the real difference between Mori bulbs and OEM, and how would it look in person once it's in the projector? (e.g. OEMs are significantly brighter?)

    Now you really have me thinking... I'm looking at pictures about people doing D2S to H7 with adaptors. It might be possible. The car is out at the moment, so I have to check it again tomorrow to see if it will work. My only real concern though is that I'm afraid D2S in halogen projector will give a very poor spray pattern and not much horizontal distance.

    If I decide to go this route, what are the ballast and bulb combo you recommend to get as close to "OEM" as possible in terms of output and temperature? Doesn't have to necessarily have to be something from the store but just something that I can easily purchase a [genuine] one of. Hella appears to be pretty good with ballasts (and are made in Germany too aren't they?) Hella Ballast + Philips bulbs? I want something under $300, preferably less if possible. But then again, I would like the OEM quality otherwise I'd just get the Morimoto Kit.

  10. #20
    Senior Member HID MASTER Michelin Man's Avatar
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    OEMs would definitely be significantly brighter.

    Have a look at testing done by a member: http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?36443-H1-Bulb-Operating-Temperature-(and-other-properties)-Comparison

    T
    hey are for H1 bulbs but the actual capsules in the Mori bulbs are all the same, except for the 45w version.

    That is the other thing, halogen projectors usually don't have much width. I'm not sure how many people have put HIDs into the factory projectors, if they have it will probably be on the forums.

    If you can run D2S-H7 adapters, depending on what colour temp you like. OEM is 4300k so if you don't mind 4300k then that's good since they're cheaper than CBIs. You'd be looking at 85122+ for 4300k.

    Hella Gen 3s are pretty good, they're pretty durable and are sealed better than other ballasts. Yes they are made in Germany, it has it stamped on the top plate, although I have actually seen some made in Korea oddly enough could be fake ones. They are also power hungry like Densos on startup but with a harness its nothing to worry about.

    The 85122+s will set you back about $95 for the pair, ballasts depending on where you get them from will be under $125 usually (that's what I've seen them for). The TRS harness is quite good since they use thicker wires than the other ones you find out there. Those will set you back $35, and the H7 adapters are under $10 bucks off ebay or something.

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